Author Topic: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!  (Read 8666 times)

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Jhb48430

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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« on: February 13, 2009, 01:53:27 PM »
Mac users at play.

Speaking of Macs...  Should I buy one?!  And if so why?  Answer in essay form

Offline dweez

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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2009, 02:05:24 PM »
It's always good, IMO, to have skills on multiple platforms
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Offline indie180

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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2009, 02:06:49 PM »
It's always good, IMO, to have skills on multiple platforms

Do you mean PS3 and X-Box.  ;D

Offline dweez

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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2009, 02:24:04 PM »
Well...  I want to network it with my other computers, I want to play games on it, hook it up to my TV and watch my films/shows on it, make little films/animations.  I do a lot of typing, and researching for my writing.  Um.  Read my ebooks....  

I think that's it...  I've been looking at a few Macs, and they look pretty nice.  

You can network a Mac with Windows boxes (although probably not as straightforward in a homogeneous network). 

If by games, you mean the online flash games, a Mac will work fine.  If you mean stuff like Fallout, Crysis, WoW, etc, then it will be hit or miss.  The number of games coming out for Mac is increasing but for the most part, most games are PC only. 

Typing and research can be done on any of the popular OS platforms (Windows, Mac OS X, *nix).

All that being said, if you get an Intel Mac, you'll have the option to run both Windows and Mac OS X.  In my research though (it is dated now) Windows tends to perform better on the non-Intel Mac HW, but I don't see you taxing it enough to really make a difference.
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Offline dweez

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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2009, 02:34:25 PM »
No problem.  I'll probably move this to a new thread in the Hardware forums.  (Or IIRC, didn't you already start one there?)  Either way, Off topic so...back with the funny.
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Offline dweez

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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2009, 03:20:55 PM »
If you are open-minded, Mac OS X is easier to use, more consistent, and more fun than Windows

If funny, given your obvious zealotry for Mac OS X, that you would use the term open-minded.
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Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2009, 03:37:05 PM »
I am not putting Macs down as I used to own one when I set up a little recording studio, as it ran more professional software and a good deal better than PCs due to it's processor and SCSI hard drive (not sure how that would relate to todays hardware).  But at least the last 3 people I personally know that have bought computers, bought a Mac to match their Ipods (I kid you not), and promptly sold them on to buy a windows laptop.

That is true.
Don't put off until tomorrow, what you can put off until the day after.

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Offline dweez

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Re: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2009, 03:49:04 PM »
Oh, Macs have come a long way and OS X was probably the most innovative OS ever when it was originally released and still brings new things to the table with every update, but the hardware has never really been top-notch stuff.  Even know, the reason you hear the phrase "Intel-Mac" hardware is because it's probably tweaked to perform to it's best on Mac OS X.

As for the previous reasons people used Macs (required by their uni major, does desktop publishing/graphics, *CAD, etc) aren't really valid anymore.  I don't begrudge anyone their favorites, but when you get to know any OS, all the "it's easier on OS A than it is on OS B" arguments go out the window.
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Re: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2009, 04:23:03 PM »
Don't get me wrong christ, I respect your opinion on it and I apologize for the tongue-in-cheekiness but I also find (having done IT/Techsupport for the last +10 years) that more often then not, it's not the OS with the issue but the user.
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Offline dweez

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Re: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2009, 05:04:39 PM »
Yeah, I know you're not a fanboy, just a very smart person with a low cowpoo tolerance. :D My upbringing and beliefs on the other hand normally forces me to keep quiet rather than to deal with close-minded people.  Back to Macs, I had a G4 cube at work for the last 5 years that hardly got touched, mostly because I just needed it for testing one particular app (which we got rid of about 6 months later) and my main job is to administer Windows servers.  It was grossly underpowered as well.  Recently I've gotten it up graded to a 20" Imac G5 (I think that's the right name convention...it's a PPC not an Intel-Mac).  I actually love the interface and the way it's desktop/file system is laid out and works (besides apps staying open when I close the window...but that's just me).

One thing that bothers me about "normal" users is how when they move to a new OS, they get annoyed when things might be done a bit differently.  Lots of people were like this for Vista but most of those don't remember the 3.1 to Win95 change.  Then, the changes were heralded and lauded.  This time, people were annoyed and pissed at the changes (aside: reminds me of the "church").  Now that I think of it, the OS 9 to OS X change over seems similar to the Win 3.1 to Win 95 transition.

Anyway, too much long winded blather from me.  Basically what I feel is, use the best instrument, based on your skillset or desire to learn, for the job you're looking to accomplished.  I'd say I'm personally OS-agnostic...but that would mean I don't believe there's enough evidence to prove they exist wouldn't it?
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Offline dweez

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Re: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 05:13:59 PM »
Quoted for posterity.  Good gawd...didn't realize you had edited/added to this.

I work in, and I do tech support for, a largely windows-using office. I (as you will see in my posts) acknowledge when Windows has the edge, and I am completely open-minded about using the best machine for the job.

When I bought servers, I tried an XServe, and ended up choosing a Quad-core Windows machine running Windows Server 2003 (soon to be 2008) - I use Exchange in place of a Mac OS X based mail server.

As I said - I support these things for a living - the mac, running Mac OS X is hands down the easiest machine to use and to support: I have graduated from 10.1 through to 10.5 with no culture shock or hiccoughs in transfer, and I can't say the same for 2000/XP/Vista - I still have folk that can't find "Save" or "Print" in Office 2007.

I have had similar experiences: Obviously my switcher acquaintances have more success than yours, but I know people that just can't get used to not doing things the Microsoft way. They don't feel comfortable without a virus checker, they worry about the lack of a disk defragmenter, they can't (and don't want to) understand why they can't see the Network Neighborhood, and they can't get used to ejecting DVDs by throwing them in the trash, and feel lost without a C: drive and a BIOS (for a few examples). These people never discover the things that Mac OS X does that Windows can't so, because all they want to do is what they did before, and preferably do it the same way that they have always done it - I get fed up with people saying that they can't use a mac because it has't got a start button. These people do, and should, stay with Windows: that doesn't mean that Windows is better, or even that they think that windows is better - it just means that they don't want to change. This is, coincidentally, the same reason that MS is having such a hard job selling Vista: It is the first time that they have moved far from Windows 95, and the userbase is uncomfortable moving away from what they are happy with.

Mac OS X is still massively more advanced than Windows, but that is not really relevant to most users: It is Unix with a great GUI, and it does 64-bit and multi-processors streets better than Windows (better even than Windows Server), which didn't used to be relevant, but now everyone needs 64-bit and multi-processors, Windows is increasingly falling short.

The hardware has been (since Jobs came back, and Ive designed them) the best designed on the market. I challenge you to find a better designed HDD sled than that in the MacPro, or a better keyboard than the current mac one - the case opening on the mac desktops has been spectacularly well-designed (and still the best available) since at least 2000. The actual parts (HDD, RAM, Video Cards etc.) are standard (although they don't tend to use low end stuff), but how they go together is brilliant. I don't hear the phrase "Intel-Mac hardware", so I can't dispute what it means.

In my circles, when people talk of a Mac, they distinguish the type by either PowerPC or Intel Mac.  That's what I meant by "Intel-Mac hardware".  And, unless they've changed it and I missed it, Apple has chosen a subset of hardware to certify for use with Mac OS X even though, as the OSx86 Project has shown, it will run on more than just that subset.  Now, I don't know what Apple's qualification for certification is so, even though it will run on other hw, there might be other valid, non-marketing reasons that the certified hardware was limited.

The main reason to use a mac is, and has always been, for those people that don't want to learn to use a computer, but wants to use a computer to do stuff. It is easier to produce a movie in iMovie on a mac than it is on the equivalent on a Windows machine because the OS doesn't get in the way. For someone that wants to tweak and play with the computer, or build their own: people for whom the machine is part of the point of ownership, then a mac is wrong.

Probably the most succinct and accurate statement I've ever heard/seen.  Well said christ.

Photoshop works on both, but artists use the mac because they don't have to worry about understanding networking, or avoiding malware, and macs use multiple screens much, much better than Windows (Windows can be forced to use multiple screens, but a novice will have nothing but trouble and frustration with it). This was true, and still is true. (as an example try connecting your laptop to an external screen, set it up as a dual screen with different resolutions on internal and external, and then disconnect the external screen. What resolution do you get on the internal screen? You can't know, because it is a lottery - it doesn't matter whether you sleep, or shutdown, or whatever - Windows hasn't got a clue. What happens when you plug the external screen back in? That's right - you have to set it up again.)

I might have to disagree with you here regarding the multiple monitors.  I use a secondary monitor with my laptop all the time and I'm often disconnecting it to take to meetings or in the data center and the only time I've ever had an issue is with the sleep mode.  If it's waking setup is different from it's sleeping setup (i.e., I put it to sleep with the external monitor connected but wake it before connecting it back) then it hiccups and my taskbar is invisible.  I have to kill explorer.exe and then run explorer.exe to get it back (where most typical users would just reboot).  And this was the only on Vista.  Since switching to Windows 7 I've yet to have that problem.  But this is still just a small issue affecting a subset of users anyway.

Today, for the first time ever, macs have the other edge in that you can, if forced, run Windows on them too - dual-booting (or multiple Oses in any form) is not an option (for any but the most tech-savvy) on a PC.

I used to run a VM of OS X on my laptop, but as you said, the typical user wouldn't have the where with all to accomplish that.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 05:33:04 PM by dweez »
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Offline smokester

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Re: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2009, 06:02:36 AM »
I have had similar experiences: Obviously my switcher acquaintances have more success than yours, but I know people that just can't get used to not doing things the Microsoft way. They don't feel comfortable without a virus checker, they worry about the lack of a disk defragmenter, they can't (and don't want to) understand why they can't see the Network Neighborhood, and they can't get used to ejecting DVDs by throwing them in the trash, and feel lost without a C: drive and a BIOS (for a few examples). These people never discover the things that Mac OS X does that Windows can't so, because all they want to do is what they did before, and preferably do it the same way that they have always done it - I get fed up with people saying that they can't use a mac because it has't got a start button. These people do, and should, stay with Windows: that doesn't mean that Windows is better, or even that they think that windows is better - it just means that they don't want to change. This is, coincidentally, the same reason that MS is having such a hard job selling Vista: It is the first time that they have moved far from Windows 95, and the userbase is uncomfortable moving away from what they are happy with.

What I find interesting about the people that I have mentioned that sold their Macs on, is that they opted for a windows laptop and not a desktop.  What that says to me it that their primary concern was to do with the look of their computer and indeed they were cautious about leaving the safety of the system that they had some prior knowledge of, but look was paramount.  I myself would love to be set up on macs but I have personally opted for systems that I can build myself as I can get a lot more power at a much reduced cost, by buying my hardware in component form.  Ideally I should really use linux but that has been on my to-do list since computers ran on gas.
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Offline knownassociate

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Re: Jhb90210 Want's a new 'puter!
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2009, 08:33:12 AM »
J, admit that you want a Mac, and get on with it. I know you are kind of waiting to see what your budget will be, but you can never have too much good information.