Topic: bring them home

[smokester]

Like I said, we created a monster, we have to deal with it.

It wasn't be accident Robin, America has to have an 'enemy' and so it has created them periodically throughout its history.  The communist witch-hunt had all but run it's course and the cold-war was start to get a little warmer what with all the reforms in Russia, so now the U.S has created another 'enemy' that it can battle away at endlessly for a good few years, and when that wears out it always has China waiting in the wings to wrestle with.

[Robin-Graves]

yeah,,we kinda pissed in our own boots back when "Tricky richard" Richard Nixxon declared the so called "War On Drugs" when we were in Viet Nam.
It was all set up to declare war on ourselves to get out minds off of an illicit war in Asia.
Now that the so called War On Drugs was seen for what it was,, we needed to have someone to bame for the ills of the world.
 I dont support the govornments involvement in this kind of thing, in fact, about 80% of Americans disaprove of what out govornemnt is doing.
They are making people like me hated throughout the world.
Thanks to Bush/Cheney,, people like me have to be carefull when we talk to people like, Gee, Indie, Landslide etc because of the bad press we get.
 None of us wanted this war, non approved, and all want it overwith.
Ive read the philosophy that every great society needs an enemy to thrive.
 If thats true,, what are we going to do with the Mideast?
We just gave them their Great Satan.
Its stupid.
We trained these people to fight for us, and now they are against us.
This is just another example of someone having a vicious dog. Either treat it well, or it will turn on you.

[smokester]

The notion that America has to remain armed to the teeth is one that I have to be supported my most Americans I have talked to, in fact, it is almost an extention of "The right the bear arms".  But to legitimise that you must have an enemy otherwise you'd be better spending all those billions on healthcare (perish the thought) or lifting people out of poverty.

That said, I would imagine the American people would much rather your military might was used more for peacekeeping rather than fighting an endless procession of would be Cardassians, which could even be classed as a good thing even by the Anti-war lobbyists.  I think that when China overtakes the U.S as a superpower, America will find itself at a rather interesting crossroads.

[Skadi]

The notion that America has to remain armed to the teeth is one that I have to be supported my most Americans I have talked to 

I heard a quote last night by someone who should be a reputable source that 75% of American youth that are of age to enter the military are classified as 'unfit to serve'. So, with dwindling money, and dwindling reinforcements, the US won't really have a choice in the future. They'll have to start realigning their modus operandi.

[Robin-Graves]

Weve been teetering on the brink of a crossroads for a long time.
The whole China thing is no mistake. Ive studied the situation for months and its come to this: China is rich now because of the US. China is also the only millitary might that CAN overtake American forces ( by sheer numbers) and the only economy that will devestate American making it a third world nation. Now,, having said that, I can explain the almost hidden agenda America has.
China bought alot of our debt,, plus they have favored nation status when it comes to trade with Ameica ( nearly all our finished goods come from China).
 When ( not if,, but WHEN) China decides to pull something and go against America, America will refuse to pay any and all debts to China ( they bought alot f our debts,, and our T Bills) but America will also refuse to buy anymore of their goods. America is the biggest buyer of Chinese goods in the world.
 This will disable China to point of crppling them for decades to come.
This is the setup for another economic war ( much like what the North did to the South in the American civil war in many respects).
As for being armed to the teath,, I have to agree with you part way.
Yes, there are too many handguns in America. A handgun is good for one thing,,killing people.  Not to mention most gun crimes are commited using handguns. Mainly by people that are crminal element anyway ( gang members, organized crime, drug related criminals etc.
 I have had handguns,, but they were left to me when my father passed away ( with the excepton of the .45 I had for home defense).
Before that aguement starts,, let me just say that  I had a couple armed asailants come in on me several years ago and hold me at gunpoint while they took what the pleased from my home, pistol whipped me and left me unconcious on the kitchen floor.
The police never found them.
I refused to have it happen again.
Now,, I am a big advocate for the rights of gun owners, BUT im also an advocate for gun control.
 Most of the gun owners in my area are farmers and hunters, and we use long guns ( rifles).
We can agree to disagree on that point, but America is a very millitant country in alot of respects. ( not that I buy that philosphy,, im actualy a very peacefull person in real life and wish to be left alone most of the time).
 But as far as Americans in general wanting the war,, thats a misnomener,, Americans in general are struggling . The 50 billion a year that the govornment is spending can go for so many other things,, like reducing poverty ( god forbid that happenes, poor get a little ahead and the wealthy wont be as wealthy as they once were!).
The American govornemnt sold its sould to ersonal interest groups, corporations and who can get a vote from what sector of society.
 The war at the time was a popular notion,, but only as far as you wanting to hit a neighbor with a cricket bat for having a barking dog.
 Too many have been killed for Bush/Cheney and thier personal monetary gains.
One life, beit theirs or ours is too much.
If you notice,,no one that is wealthy, or a politicians child is in harms way.
That ought to tell you something.
hey wanted us to believe that Akmed was comming to our house to rape our kids, kill our wife, and make us watch as they did it screaming Allah Ackbar.
 It was rediculous,, and everyone saw through it .
As for 911? I have a few thigs to say about that later on if this thread goes that direction.

I heard a quote last night by someone who should be a reputable source that 75% of American youth that are of age to enter the military are classified as 'unfit to serve'. So, with dwindling money, and dwindling reinforcements, the US won't really have a choice in the future. They'll have to start realigning their modus operandi.

Who was the reputable source?
I got to say he is pretty much wrong in alot of the cases unless its a cirtain branch of the military, or cirtain Millitary Ocupational Services.
 To get into the Army or Maines, you have to score relly not that high on the ASVAB test.
For the Airforce or Navy,, the scoring is pretty high to get in,, but they are more technical banches.
 As for physical requirements,, its actualy pretty low,, 3.5 miles to be an in 18 minutes,, a man in a wheelchair can do that.


BTW,, dont judge me by what you hear about Americans,, I think alot of you can attest im not you "Typical American".  And many I do know in America think alot like I do. Most of us just want to be left alone so we can live our lives the best we can.

 

[smokester]

I was using "The right to bear arms" as a metaphor for the need to be a military superpower.

China is an economic giant in its own right and has already quite openly stolen all the top secret weapon schematics from America (remember that in the news?), so they are not worried about either financial or more aggressive moves by any other nation.  The problem is that it is America that is accused of setting up strategic bases encircling China that could lead to confrontation in the future - it is not the other way round.  That said, China may well yet help the allies with an exit strategy in Afganistan (see how I got that back on topic..), then we can all have a kiss and a cuddle until another Bush gets back in power..

[Skadi]

Who was the reputable source?
I got to say he is pretty much wrong in alot of the cases unless its a cirtain branch of the military, or cirtain Millitary Ocupational Services.

^ He was a high ranking general.

And if you think of it, he's right. Because we're overstretched we've depleted our ready forces. And a large majority of kids in late teens are out of shape (as in drastically, and or overweight), or drug or alcohol dependent,  have a history of violent crime, have been diagnose with deprsession or add etc that have them on meds.. possibly can't read.. or, might admit to being openly gay or bisexual. If we had a flat out draft they might have to get more picky. But, the elite of the elite that could go into combat training is dwindling. And, we have a different type of population then we did in the 1940's.

[Robin-Graves]

I was using "The right to bear arms" as a metaphor for the need to be a military superpower.

China is an economic giant in its own right and has already quite openly stolen all the top secret weapon schematics from America (remember that in the news?), so they are not worried about either financial or more aggressive moves by any other nation.  The problem is that it is America that is accused of setting up strategic bases encircling China that could lead to confrontation in the future - it is not the other way round.  That said, China may well yet help the allies with an exit strategy in Afganistan (see how I got that back on topic..), then we can all have a kiss and a cuddle until another Bush gets back in power..

Good way of getting back on topic Smokey lol.
Sorry,, felt a little defensive there for a bit,,still used to being bashed for being American lmao. ( sorry for the paranoia,,bad incidentin another forum a while back)

^ He was a high ranking general.

And if you think of it, he's right. Because we're overstretched we've depleted our ready forces. And a large majority of kids in late teens are out of shape (as in drastically, and or overweight), or drug or alcohol dependent,  have a history of violent crime, have been diagnose with deprsession or add etc that have them on meds.. possibly can't read.. or, might admit to being openly gay or bisexual. If we had a flat out draft they might have to get more picky. But, the elite of the elite that could go into combat training is dwindling. And, we have a different type of population then we did in the 1940's.

As for that information,, I did not know who said it. Ive been out of touch wth CNN and things for a bit.
 BUT,,, the same can almost be said with the Viet Nam era.
My father was present when several new recrutes in 1969 were told that they were drafted to go to Viet Nam to die because America needed to be cleaned up.
 As for the exit strategy,, Bush/Cheney jumped the gun thinking they were going to make alot of money when we went to war ( which they did). And the longer we are at war, the more money cirtin constituants they had make off of it.
Its good old fashion capatalist war profiteering.
 We are in this for one reason,,greed. America doesnt need to buy oil from the Mideast, they fail t tell you tht in 1982 Ronald Reagan ordered the capping off of wells in one of the biggest oil areas ( the Anadarko Basin) for unknown reasons.
Even oil companies said that we had enough oil there to last a couple centuries at curent rate of expansion.
 If you research it far enough, right after Saddam was taken out of power, an oil pipeline was built accross part od Iraq. Not to mention he was wanting to switch to the Euro which would have made it horder on America economicaly.
 I still have this confusion though why we have to bring democracy to a region of the world that just plain doesnt want it.