Author Topic: Newtown Massacre  (Read 27692 times)

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Offline smokester

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Newtown Massacre
« on: December 15, 2012, 07:01:47 AM »
I have just read about the Newtown massacre and I am close to tears reading the story.  I know it's a bit of an elephant in the room here, but I don't want to start a thread as here in the U.K we have very different views regarding firearms and it can often create friction with our American friends if we state them. That said, we all pretty much have the same view and solutions to the freaks among us.

Words cannot convey the sadness I feel about the loss of life over there, and I can only offer a prayer for the survivors.
Don't put off until tomorrow, what you can put off until the day after.

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Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2012, 08:37:36 AM »
I'm sad to say this, but we get the society we deserve.  As long as people think it's more important to have the right to own automatic firearms, these kinds of incidents will continue.  Some people clearly think owning guns trumps the rights of people to be safe in public places.  I am sickened by the prospect of all these sweet children gunned down in the one place where they were supposed to be safe and nurtured, but I am even more sickened by the periodic gnashing of teeth and lack of action to do anything to prevent it from recurring.  I can't even bring myself to read the expressions of sadness, because I think there's no real point.  Congresswoman Giffords gets shot in the head, and it's not enough.  These children get gunned down in school?  I still think it's not enough.  And that's America for you.  It makes me sad, angry and still, that's us.  It's the society we choose.

Offline dweez

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2012, 10:56:27 AM »
This is a horrible tragedy.  My heart and prayers go out to the families of those who lost someone as well as to the whole community.

Also, this is the last thing I'll say on this but the U.S. has had the right to bear arms for more than 200 years and while shooting of this nature have been occurring more often, it is not the norm.  The person was obviously mentally ill.  Putting the focus on our gun laws misses the crux of this guy's issues.  I work at Virginia Tech and was here for the number of shootings on campus.  I blame the person, not the object.

That being said, I will support anyone's right to have a different opinion than I as long as it is present in an adult, mature manner and isn't judgmental or attacking others in nature.
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Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2012, 01:26:36 PM »
its sad indeed. :'(
Unfortunately its not the gun, its the person pulling the trigger.

Offline xtopave

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2012, 05:26:49 PM »
The fact that they were kids and so little and it happened in a school is so bloodcurdling I'm reading the information just in pieces cause I really can't stand it. Jesus, poor people and their families!!

Offline smokester

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2012, 05:59:37 PM »
I have split this out and created a new thread after all, as it will allow the LPTSW thread to move on.
Don't put off until tomorrow, what you can put off until the day after.

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Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 06:26:04 PM »
LPTSW, what?

Offline dweez

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 06:45:05 PM »
"Last Person To Speak Wins" thread, where this topic started.  Excellent call smokes.  This deserves more than a passing page of comments.
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Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 06:51:54 PM »
Yup, I've removed several facebook friends so far.

Offline Beatrix

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2012, 07:02:38 PM »
I had to do that with the election. 

I haven't been on facebook or the internet really since I read about this, of course we have had a ravager of a flu. 

I believe it's the fundamentals that we should look at.  I wonder why the mother didn't have this person under close observation?  Maybe it could have been the fact she was a teacher.  Where did this person get the gun?  Why was it never observed that he was mentally ILL?  He should have had a record kept that prevented him from Ever purchasing a gun.  Something tells me his parents didn't want to admit he was problematic, therefore he wasn't treated ever, especially at a young age.  That is another question I keep passing through my head.  Why were people not aware of the psychosis, the father made statements as if he were confused, and I guess I am too. 

Offline smokester

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2012, 07:16:41 PM »
Would it be difficult to obtain a firearm in the U.S., illegitimately?  They're incredibly rare here but at a push I think I could get my hands on one if I really had a mind to.
Don't put off until tomorrow, what you can put off until the day after.

There is an exception to every rule, apart from this one.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 08:19:09 PM »
The shooter had access to legally acquired guns.  Gun laws would not have prevented the shooting.  But I'd like to know why normal citizens have to have automatic weapons.  My family regularly hunted game for food.  They never needed automatic weapons.  We had guns in my home and we were taught to respect them, sternly taught never ever to point them at another person.

I have a close friend who has struggled with schizophrenia most of his adult life.  He lives in poverty, largely shunned by most of our friends.  But he's not violent.  It was a struggle to get him help.  Many people suffer from this illness and it's hard to recognize or admit a loss of control, and the social stigma against it makes it even harder to admit one needs help.  Social and medical programs are often the first to be cut when governments look at budgets.  Mentally ill people are poor and can't afford expensive lobbyists, so they often bear the brunt of budget cuts.  There is no question, having read about Lanza's behavior from the accounts of his contemporaries, that he struggled with some kind of mental problems.  Why his mother, a kindergarten teacher, needed three automatic weapons at home is something I cannot begin to fathom.  There have to be limits to liberty, and being able to kill everybody in a movie theatre on a day when you are especially pissed off does not seem to have been included in the Second Amendment of our Constitution.  That's where I draw the line.

It's this simple:  your freedom to swing your arms about stops the minute you hit me in the nose.  There are laws about drinking and driving.  Nobody gets hysterical when those are imposed.  They are commonsensical.  Why, then, shouldn't there be restrictions about how and under what circumstances one can use other deadly devices?  One begins to wonder if people equate guns with their phalluses or something.  It's irrational.  I have no problem if you have properly locked up weapons that are under control and pose no danger to law abiding citizens, but I think you should have to buy liability insurance to cover unauthorized damage.  If your kid gets in your car and runs somebody over with it, you should have to pay for the damage he causes.  By the same token, if your kid gets into your guns and shoots somebody, you should have to be liable for the damage caused.  Presently there are no restrictions of this type and there should be.

Perhaps if people were held liable for such tragedies, we'd be less likely to see this kind of insane shooting rampage.  I may be wrong, but it's better to try to do something to stop it than to just sit around wringing our hands, saying tsk tsk every time somebody shoots up a shopping center, movie theatre, place of worship or kindergarten.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 08:52:50 PM »
Do you have a citation that the weapons were full auto? I've not heard that from any sources.

Offline mishca09

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2012, 10:01:39 PM »

 

the only one responsible here for the murders of those children and teachers is Adam Lanza, not his mother, not congress, not the government.   He decided that day for whatever reason that he was going to kill his mother and innocent children and adults, Even if his mother wasn't a gun enthusiast, he would have found a way to hurt who ever he wanted  to. 

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 12:45:55 AM »
You can call me crazy, but I can't think of one single good reason why normal citizens need automatic or semi automatic weapons.

Had the shooter had a knife instead, he very well may have killed several children, but the likelihood of his having killed less would have been significantly greater.  And the longer interval necessary for him to perform this heinous crime may have enabled crucial interventions.  And if you think you have really good reasons why we all need our own personal semi automatic weapons, or for that matter, our own personal hydrogen bombs, I'd like to hear it.