Topic: Is the Corona virus the elephant in the room?

[goldshirt*9]

washing up liquid and water will stop spreading the virus, removes the fatty layer that surrounds the little blighter as per Uni medics

[6pairsofshoes]

A man I knew from various work related functions died yesterday in NYC.  He was a nice person and accomplished in his field.  Not a great deal older than me.  I don't want to leave my house.  It's getting too weird.

And now the U.S. gets to win the prize for the most infected.  With a population a fraction of the size of China's.  Lord help us.

[smokester]

A man I knew from various work related functions died yesterday in NYC.  He was a nice person and accomplished in his field.  Not a great deal older than me.  I don't want to leave my house.  It's getting too weird.

And now the U.S. gets to win the prize for the most infected.  With a population a fraction of the size of China's.  Lord help us.

I don't believe the numbers from China for a moment. There were some estimates that put their death toll at the millions due to millions of phone accounts suddenly disappearing. I can believe that as even if their real death toll was just 10 times the official figure, it would create enormous civil unrest that could threaten the ruling party.

The saddest thing about China in this crisis is that they cannot have it both ways: it was hailed for a fantastic response and now also applauded for being able to contain it with such limited loss of life. If what they claim is true, then it is unquestionable that if they'd listened to Li Wenliang in the first place, this "evidently" would never have happened.

[8ullfrog]

When I heard the triage stuff, I got nervous, as I remember Aelthric's adventures with NHS quite a while back, and the language is familiar.

There is a medicine that prevents a condition from being terminal, and patients are being told their prescriptions will not be filled, because their medication has been set aside for others.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tanyachen/kaiser-permanente-lupus-chloroquine

Just the fact that this rather terrifying news is coming from BUZZFEED makes it all the worse. Top 15 ways you're going to die (Number 7 will shock you!)

Reminds me of the tamiflu poo when 13 people got anthrax mailed to them and it became a "National" crisis.

golly Trump and his "Game Changers".  Everyone talking about vaccines and treatments when those options are not actually on the table. Every time I see the prayer hands on facebook for a vaccine, I want to slap the person using it.

As to the Toilet Paper, turns out it wasn't a consumer run that caused the shortage, it was the Wal-Mart style "Just in time" logistics formula.

See, stores don't want stuff filling up pallets in the back of the shop, they want the product on the shelf as soon as it shows up. This creates shortages when the automated system fails to order "enough". (And if you let a computer override human logic, you've already bent up)

At CompUSA the computer constantly flagged me for termination. This led to many mandatory 20 minute interviews with the rather Dour HR lady. By interview three she'd warmed to being like a surrogate grandmother, and always apologized for the inconvenience. The forms we had to fill out together were formidable.

Specifically, I clocked WAY more hours than the standard sales staff, and the efficiency algorithm DID NOT LIKE THAT. I wasn't in sales, I was in service. My role was considered critical to the company, but not by the machine.

[smokester]

We have so little trust in our leaders, and we have been brainwashed with and by "fake news", that we can no longer believe anything. We don't believe our own numbers, China's numbers, Germany's numbers or any numbers. (Russia? 3 Dead?)

Why? (1) Because we don't want to believe them, and (2) because the people publishing them have previously proved themselves untrustworthy. Especially foreigners. And Boris.

Personally, I think that the numbers are credible, and everyone is doing their level best to be honest, but because of previous behaviours they are simply not believed by most.

^ This is what makes the whole initial reaction by the Chinese so desperate for the rest of us. If they really kept the numbers down to a fraction of what the rest of us could pray for, then they could have certainly contained the outbreak and none of this would have happened.

The Russians are also a bit suspicious in this too. They have incredibly low numbers and are willingly giving away respirators and other equipment, but are also rapidly building field hospitals?  I don't get it?

Chloroquine is not effective against coronavirus.

At least one person has died from inappropriately taking Chloroquine.

Better quote that too.

[8ullfrog]

To be fair, the guy self administered and it was the wrong kind of Chloroquine, but yes, this is evil. True unmitigated evil.

Read the evil email "Even if your doctor writes a prescription, we won't be filling it".

Contrast, Rite-Aid told me to come get a three month supply of my daily med. It's not Chloroquine though, and there is no buzz about it. Also means I don't have to go back to Rite-Aid during the SAHO. That's a smart response, unlike... essentially everyone else.

I've had to fight for my meds in the past though, a tennis match of "that's their department" happened. Essentially, Rite-Aid has to order out for my pills, and they don't want to be the ones left holding the bag. My Insurance company likes to play dumb, as if they've never heard of me. My doctor would like to light both of them on fire with her mind.

I don't have a car, so my insurance company sends me day passes for the bus... but they're not great at it, I keep an empty one handy and drop the six bucks.

I haven't visited my Psychiatrist or Psychologist since the scare started, and that's probably for the best, those bus rides kicked my ass anyway.

I'm just glad she switched my meds in december, the old ones had me vomiting at least once a week. I haven't puked since.


As to the China Angle, I believe Smokes wishes China had suspended international travel themselves, to contain the virus, but it's a fair criticism of the OTHER countries for not doing that themselves.

[8ullfrog]

It's a common refrain, and I also find it offensive.

Like the people who say Magic Johnson was "cured" of AIDS. There is no cure.

[6pairsofshoes]

I find the efforts of the health care community heroic.  I have a hard time believing that the current administration is doing its best.  It has accrued a very poor track record that has actually exacerbated the current situation.  That's about all I have to say on the matter.  No need to flog a dead horse on this.  (I had to change "slog" to "flog" then thought of "snog" which is a term not generally used in the U.S., it reminded me of the change one letter game in Chaos on the Noid fora.)

I'm less knowledgable re the UK, but it doesn't seem to me that cutting funds to the NHS was a great idea in retrospect.

[8ullfrog]

Hugely popular with assholes. Cutting social services is how they get hard.

On a lighter note, my mom's talk show that she watches, Mel Robbins, was replaced with... Lacrosse. No one gives a poo about Lacrosse!
(Production was halted March 14th, but she wasn't getting a second season anyway)

[smokester]

I don't follow this logic: if they did really well, they should have done better?

Remember that they were the first: countries with advance warning (Italy? Us? US?) couldn't/ can't contain it, even though they knew what was coming, but the Chinese could have had no idea what was coming. Hindsight is great, but not a (fair) basis for criticism.

This is sort of my point. If this virus cannot be controlled by man and will rampage through communities regardless of what they do, then China's indiscretions regarding the medical professionals that first saw this virus in early December can, not be forgiven, but can be ignored for the moment. If however, China can effectively halt the virus and keep the death toll a fraction of the count of a country whose population 40 times smaller than their own, then criminalising half a dozen or so clinicians to maintain public order and political stability and allow the virus to spread far and wide, makes them wholly responsible.

Again, I do not believe their numbers in any way whatsoever as they have form for under reporting fatalites, especially rail crashes.

[smokester]

Yup - this is where I started - if you habitually lie like a cheap Changi watch, no-one will believe you when it is important.

I'm still not sure that I follow you (probably because I'm not very knowledgeable about China's antics) but I am slightly concerned that you appear to be advocating abandoning public order and political stability: this is a very bad idea which would/ will become apparent when the virus clears. I am struggling to see what post-Covid UK looks like, let alone a post-breakdown China. And let's not forget, abandoning public order and political stability still may not have stopped the spread.

You're assuming that there's only one kind of public order. They maintained public order in Tiananmen square, but I'd call it something quite different. As for political stability, while once a young socialist worker (China was the motherland back then), I rather think that Chinese politics are due a reform so I'm all for change.

[smokester]

Nope. But changing between different kinds has a habit of being a little disruptive, and not the sort of thing that you want to be encouraging in the middle of a plague, where some sort of strategic leadership is imperative. I'm not sure that a sort of Pol Pot or Lenin "regime change" (or even a Saddam Hussein version) is what is necessary now in any country.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of democratic administrations around the world would have been alarmed had one of their clinicians warned of a new and potentially dangerous virus they hadn't seen before. I realise it's not really worth the debate now as the horse has well and truly bolted, but I will remain pretty angry that all this could have been avoided had the Chinese authorities had the far sightedness that they could have been hailed as heroes if they hadn't been so concerned about possible civil unrest. Masses of people dying is far worse.

At least they have exonerated Li Wenliang. That should keep them in office.

I see there is some momentum gathering about the unreliable numbers in China now. I thought it was only tabloids reporting on the 1000's of urns being delivered to Wuhan, but I see The Telegraph, The Guardian and even Time is reporting on it. The number just for that area is up by nearly 3000 compared to the previous 2 years.

Scary numbers here in the U.K today too.

[8ullfrog]

It looks like mom may actually be able to prepare the ham rounds.

I think I mentioned that in the food thread, and possibly here, mom panic bought what she thought was canadian bacon. It wasn't, it's these weird as poo ham rounds. Almost as if they took a slab of sandwich meat, and merely collected the ends. Or the rind off a cured sausage.

Either way, it's a creamed eels, corn nog, wadded beef type panic purchase.  I came up with the idea of shove em in the middle of a biscuit, bake it up, and drown it in white gravy.

And they've finally restocked white gravy. No bread, but they had white gravy.

[6pairsofshoes]

If you have meat broth, you can make gravy with a little flour.  Cook on the stovetop, until it thickens.  It's less likely to lump if you put a little water in with the flour and mix a smooth liquid from it before adding to the broth.

Of course if you don't have broth (those little bouillon cubes should work in a pinch) or flour, it's pointless.  I'm glad you are managing to put together some food.  Sorry I'm too far away to help much.

[smokester]

At least a had a whole day playing Dragon Age Inquisition. I must have mentioned it here about 6 years ago but have never found enough time to play it.

Not sure it's a good thing as I could have been productive had I put my mind to it.

What the heck. It's Sunday after all.

Is it Sunday? I truly have no idea.