Topic: Furlough

[goldshirt*9]

But if you are laid off, you are eligible for unemployment insurance here.

unsure about insurance part, but here you can claim for government help (monies, which you may receive from various government allowances)

The only way you could sack someone instantly and outright here (I think) would be for "gross misconduct". As goldie is a union rep he could clarify that but I'm sure you couldn't sack someone just for doing "a really bad job". You'd have to offer support first to improve their performance.

True and we had had a few where i work
Again true, but this could also come under gross misconduct depending on what the results of "the bad job" outcome is,
i.e you kill someone
scrap off parts
the managers hate you (I have seen this as well)
but generally  management must ask why it happened and help you.

[6pairsofshoes]

"unemployment insurance" is actually a payroll tax that employers who hire above a certain # of employees who work above a certain # of hours must pay to the state.

It's collected on a state by state basis and paid out to employees when they are laid off.  So it's actually a government program.

[goldshirt*9]

Interesting.
we receive from the employer.
Redundancy payment
Notice pay (depends on time served of period of redundancy notice, employers hate this one)
Any monies owed (holidays left over)

From government
Normally a tax rebate at the end of the year (depending on new job / ay job)

[6pairsofshoes]

Executive Orders are only good so long as a successor does not overturn them.  Trump, being a racist jerk, made a hobby of undoing anything Obama did.  A neat continuance of his "birther" conspiracy hoax.  They are warming seats in Hell for that family.

In the U.S., some companies will give "severance" pay to employees whose positions are eliminated due to "downsizing" or other structural reorganizations.  That's paid by the employer.  There have been scandalous payouts to CEOs that range from stock options to cash payments in the hundreds of millions.   

To obtain Unemployment Insurance, you need to go to the relevant State agency with documentation verifying that you weren't outright fired and that the reason you are unemployed is not due to any fault of your own.  If eligible, you can receive benefits for a fixed period of time, but normally you have to prove you are actively looking for work during the benefit period to keep receiving the money.

[smokester]

I think that there may be a little confusion around "when". I think 6 means when they are in the state of being laid off (i.e. like dole/ social security/ universal benefit etc.) rather than when the act of being laid off occurs.

There is across the board a difference to how the employer/ employee relationship is seen on the two sides of the pond. In the US the employer has pretty much no obligation to the employee past paying them for doing a job. In the UK there is more of a social obligation on the employer, enforced by arcane rules.

On the "instant dismissal" thing - there is a difference between firing someone and removing a job title from them - a lot of the folk that the President can instantly remove are political appointees to a "title" and having that title removed doesn't remove the person from employment it just shuffles them around a bit, so the remover doesn't have to justify it. In the UK the now-untitled person may leave and claim "constructive dismissal", I guess the same could happen in the US but it is a bit more of a lottery.

Interestingly I have read that the current incumbent is introducing labo(u)r laws (executive orders: how did someone not see that executive orders are essentially untrammelled power, not subject to any checks or balances?) that make it illegal to fire a civil servant for political allegiance, whilst taking advantage of the current situation (where those laws are not yet in place) by busily firing folk that don't follow his ideology and stuffing all the posts that get freed up with his believers: thus making it quite difficult for his successor to recover the situation. It would have a bad look if his successor effectively passed a law (or repealed a law to have the same effect) that allowed people to be fired for their political allegiance, after all (even if what that really meant was restoring the status quo ante)

The thought of sacking anyone actually scares me. Not much else in the workplace does.

[smokester]

This is one of the primary reasons that I never considered starting up a company: the thought of firing someone bothers me so much that I couldn't see a way of safely hiring anyone.

I worked from September of 2016 until August of 2018 without a break because one guy just kept asking where we were working the following week even though everyone I employed were specific to a particular contract. I didn't have the heart to tell him that I wanted a couple of weeks off and ended up getting to him to paint my flat so that I could finally sit down and relax at home. In the end he got the hump because a client kept changing her mind with what colour paint to use which would have stopped him working for a day or two, so he bailed and was never heard of again. I've been tempted to call him for some casual labour, but never get as far as pressing the button.

I suppose COVID has legitimised laying people off without fear of it getting to your conscience. Or has it compounded the issue?

[goldshirt*9]

So have found out through the grape vine that our Company owners are now tightening the screw on workers pay.

One site ( make or made aircraft rivets) have demanded that the employees take a min of 20-30% pay drop to keep their jobs.
Another near Ilkeston are demanding 5-10% pay drop to keep their jobs.
Site where i am employed have a meeting PM today 02/12/20 to discuss a similar request, unsure exactly but rumour is forgo 2 year pay rise agreed / pay reduction / more redundancies on top of the redundancies we are still awaiting finalisation. But only rumours so will ignore for now.
Our HR kindling phones me and stated I could do Union business and come to work without pay as per the law, I kindly replied NO I wont be coming in as the management can wait until i am "re-employed and paid" to help sort out their problems next week.
Our work force is mainly of an age that most have 20 + years employment there and have finished their mortgages etc and could reduce their wage but hate the management and will eagerly take redundancy.
So companies are turning the screw in our sector to enable profits for the big boss.
We live in interesting times.
watch this space

[smokester]

So have found out through the grape vine that our Company owners are now tightening the screw on workers pay.

One site ( make or made aircraft rivets) have demanded that the employees take a min of 20-30% pay drop to keep their jobs.
Another near Ilkeston are demanding 5-10% pay drop to keep their jobs.
Site where i am employed have a meeting PM today 02/12/20 to discuss a similar request, unsure exactly but rumour is forgo 2 year pay rise agreed / pay reduction / more redundancies on top of the redundancies we are still awaiting finalisation. But only rumours so will ignore for now.
Our HR kindling phones me and stated I could do Union business and come to work without pay as per the law, I kindly replied NO I wont be coming in as the management can wait until i am "re-employed and paid" to help sort out their problems next week.
Our work force is mainly of an age that most have 20 + years employment there and have finished their mortgages etc and could reduce their wage but hate the management and will eagerly take redundancy.
So companies are turning the screw in our sector to enable profits for the big boss.
We live in interesting times.
watch this space

Illegitimi non carborundum.

[goldshirt*9]

Nowadays I try not to and it really pisses them off